More Cool Ideas for the Cabin

The stair slide and indoor climbing wall come from this article about an architect that built an eco-friendly/kid-friendly home. He also uses geothermal piping to heat his house.

This is an artists rendering of what neighborhoods would look like if we flipped the cement:greenery ratio with lots of green space and little brick buildings. Pretty cool. This is what I imagined a neighborhood of rammed earth housing with living roofs would look like. I'd love to have a living roof on the cabin.

I am in love with concrete floors. I don't know how well they work for real living (too cold or too hard to make...?) but they look awesome! Plus, you're not limited to the design or colors. We could go simple, traditional, crazy or fun!

Yes, this next one was made to look like a beach. You can see a starfish in the bottom right corner and the waves rolling up the beach on the left. SO AWESOME!

I've also thought it would be really neat to have a tree growing right through a house! I don't know if this will work for a rammed earth cabin, but the concept is pretty cool...

Anyway, those are some ideas I've been thinking about.

Financials

So everyone has responded. I asked for a minimum and maximum amount for monthly contribution and up front contribution.

Minimum Monthly Total = $325
Maximum Monthly Total = $610
Minimum Up Front Cont = $2400
Maximum Up Front Cont = $6150

Since part of the goal is to not stretch anyone, lets just look at the minimums. $325/month is adequate to make this project feasible, I believe. The upfront minimum of $2400 however, I think would be a little low to be able to realistically get this going. If we all started contributing now, however, that would be $3900/year towards the fund. It might not take too long to start making this a reality! If we add in some peoples max contributions then we could realistically start even sooner.

Just a thought, that I haven't thought out completely either. What else could we do collectively w/this money? A family cabin is great, but it IS difficult times, which does of course make it the time to buy. A couple of other ideas though: family vacation - sweet one. Of course a cabin would be endless vacations. Pay some bills for mom. Get together to invest in something; this was suggested by someone else at the last meeting as well. Yes, there are investments that start this low that are not that risky, flipping cars is one that I do right now. Buy a little rental property, however this one would take someones credit. Just a thought. Any others?

Fee summary and timeline

After talking with building inspectors, fire marshals, realtors, and structural engineers, here are most of the fees that will have to be paid to begin building the cabin, along with a timeline:

First, buy the land. I'm hoping we can purchase land with as little as $2000 down.
How to help: look at land for sale online, call a realtor, drive to lots, take pictures, post what you find.

Next step, we need blueprints for the cabin including a site plan. I plan on working on these myself over the winter since we can't work on the cabin in the snow anyway. I'll probably purchase software to help me ranging from $100 to $400.
How to help: If you know anyone that has drafting, framing, or architectural skills, talk to them about trading time at the cabin for work, etc. If you know of good software, post about it.

Once we have a plan, we need to have it stamped by a structural engineer. Its possible to skip this step if we purchase a stock building plan. However, that means we would have to build the cabin exactly according to the plan. We couldn't use rammed earth, rubble trench foundations, reclaimed lumber, etc. The cabin would probably not be very unique or inspiring. But, it would save on engineer costs. I spoke with an engineer and he estimated it would cost around $2000. I think we can find ways to lower that, but that was his estimate.
How to help: Find an engineer that would be willing to trade time at the cabin for their work. A recent college grad for example. Or take payments over time.

Once we have the engineer stamped plans, we schedule a time to meet with the fire marshall. He will have some requirements for the cabin, as well as the lot. We have to clear dead wood and fallen trees within a certain distance from the structure, etc. We have to pay $1000 upfront, then we get $500 back once the cabin is complete.

Once he approves the plan, we submit the building plans to the HOA. Every HOA is different, but they ones I've spoken with have a small fee for this, around $300.

Once this is approved, we submit the plans to the county building department. After speaking with them, if the plans are stamped by an engineer, they most likely will approve it. They will asses their fee based upon square footage. He estimated that a project like ours would cost around $2000.

Now that we have a building permit, work can begin on the cabin. There are a couple of other fees we have to pay, depending on where we build. The places I'm looking into have a water connect fee of $1500. I need to call about the power connect fees, but I estimate them to be around $1000.

So, that's a lot of fees and money. Including the down payment on the lot, I project we will need at least $7000 to start. The water and power connect fees can be paid later. We'll have plenty of work to do before we're ready to connect.

So, here's a rough estimate of the timeline:

This year its possible to purchase land. However, we won't have much time to work on it before snow falls. But, we may get a better deal than buying in the spring. And we would have a place to store any materials that we could accumulate.

However, we could just wait to purchase land until next spring, and over the winter we can be saving our money, working on the the cabin plans together, and start accumulating materials. So next summer I think we could get all our permits taken care of and have the driveway in, the building spot leveled, and the foundations completed before the snow falls.

The following year could be when we build the walls, the roof, etc. It's possible we could finish that year. But if we don't, we'll almost certainly finish it the following summer. So, being conservative, this is probably a three year project.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts.

Brandon

Christmas Cabin

I just wanted to say that I liked Becky's idea that we put our Christmas money towards the cabin. The money that we would have spent on Christmas presents only for our siblings (not your individual families) could go into the big bank account. Delayed gratification for something bigger and better in the end?!?!? I like it! Anyone else on board? Anyone not like the idea? Maybe some people have already bought things...so maybe this wouldn't work but just a thought to put out there.

Added Email Address

Hi Everyone. I added "resources" and "fun ideas for cabin" on the side. Be sure to add your ideas and thoughts. I also added almost everyone's email address to the "email notification" option. I could only add 10 people so Brandon and Becky I left you guys off because you seem to be more on top of this blog than anyone...hope that was okay. If someone doesn't want to receive an email every time there is a blog post then just remove your name under "settings", and then "email&mobile" and then "email notifications".

It was fun to talk about all this on Sunday. We are really excited and Spencer even wants to get his family doing the same thing because it is an awesome idea!

Thanks everyone!

Treasurer

I have been nominated treasurer of the Allred Cabin Fever project. So I will be contacting each family member with some questions about finances, etc. When answering these questions please know that your answers will not be shared w/anyone else. Once everyone has answered I will give a grand total, so you will know your portion and a total. The purpose of this survey is to determine the actual financial feasibility of doing this and starting somewhat quickly so we can start enjoying our new family cabin. Realistically, we will probably need to find a building lot that offers some sort of seller financing, so we will have a down payment and a monthly payment as well as building costs. Before we start, however, there will also need to be some rules guidelines discussed and agreed upon by the entire group. Above all else, I think we can all agree we don't want this to bring up ANY ill feelings between anybody. Some of the things in mind that I am talking about are equity splits in the event the property is sold, scheduling of the cabin, value of labor/skills/etc as a contribution instead of money. Please assume that these questions will be answered and resolved to everyone's agreement. Please also assume that we will actually get this done and you will have use of a cabin. I know I was originally thinking, sweet a family cabin, this will be fun even though it will never go anywhere. But once I started thinking that it might actually go somewhere I was taking it a bit more serious and thinking that I would definitely be willing to contribute to make this happen. Also, if you don't feel you can contribute anything at this time, it doesn't mean you are not allowed at the cabin. This is a family use cabin. It will mean if any proceeds or equity or rental income is had, that you won't get a portion of that. You may also be able to contribute later, or contribute items. Here is a list of questions: Please discuss these w/your spouse and be ready to answer them in the next couple of days.

1. How much, if anything, can you contribute up front as a lump sum? Min & Max. Think of this as, well we could easily do $X, possibly $XX. We don't want anyone to feel stretched by this by any means. But the more we can get committed the more likely that this will actually take place.
2. How much, if anything, can you contribute on a consistent monthly basis? Min & Max again
3. How many hours can you commit to actual physical labor per month, as a family? This is for actual building, site prep, etc.
4. What equipment might you have access to for free/reduced rate that could possibly be used in construction?

Temporary office/cabin

So here is an example of a temporary office that might work great for building cabin HQ. This is a current auction that ends on Saturday. The current price is $100. And later you can convert it to storage or something.

Cheap 'cabin' structure

So these come up for auction every now & then:

http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,ut/auction/view?auc=463563

This one is currently at $1. they typically end up around 20-200 depending on how nice they are inside or how hard they are to move. This would get us a complete structure for VERY cheap. The cons, ugly, not efficient for weather, possibly no bathrooms inside, not a 'cabin'. the pros, CHEAP, CHEAP, WE HAVE A BUILDING. This would get a building in place where we can then enjoy for a while while we build a real cabin. Brandon did mention if this is temporary, then just get some free camper trailers that people are giving away all the time; they have bathrooms and are easily moved. True, but we can all fit in here. Maybe the campers aren't a bad idea. Maybe we could get some old crappy cars & cement blocks and put them all in the front yard. just kidding, tangent. Just a thought here though that would make a real structure actually possible THIS YEAR. if we had a lot

Report on lot visits

The realtor showing us the properties showed us several lots that were interesting to us. Here they are:

This first lot is just over 1 acre, is steep, but has a good flat spot for building. One bonus is that it faces South and west, perfect for being able to harness the suns energy for heating. One downside is that most of the trees on this lot are smaller. There's not the 'secluded in the pines' feel, but it's still very pretty. One advantage to this is you have much better views because you can see over the trees.

The seller is asking $23,900, but there's really no work done to the lot yet.

Driveway into the lot

Smaller trees...

but beautiful views South and West.





Nice view.

This next lot is actually very pretty, but it has a couple of problems. It has a great flat spot for building, but it's quite a ways up into the lot, so building the driveway to get there would be quite the chore. However, the cabin would be nestled in a gorgeous group of pines. Very pretty.

It is also facing South in a thick forest. There would be virtually no solar gain in the winter.

He's asking $19,900, with no work done.




Right beyond me where that tree is tipping over is the flat spot for building


But this is the view down to the road...a very long driveway.



Very pretty forest.











This last lot is also facing South, so it has the same solar problems as the others. However, it has a couple of large advantages. The owner is desperate to sell, and he has already done a good deal of work to the property. He's installed the septic, he's got water and power to the house, he's already put in the driveway and leveled the building lot. And he's already got approved permits for the cabin. A very pretty lot.

So, there's a summary of the trip. It takes about 1 hour 15 minutes from our front door to this location, so it's kinda far. But the drive would be worth it. It's a beautiful canyon.

Brandon

Visiting lots

I'm driving down south to visit a couple of possible lots either tonight, or tomorrow night.

If you're interested in coming along, let me know and we'll go together. Here are the lots I'll be visiting:

This lot is selling for $3200 for 1 acre, but he seems willing to go down a bit. It would take a little money to get the power and water to the lot, but not as much as in some areas. The landscape is not terribly exciting, at least from the pictures: mostly scrub oak. But because it's so cheap, it's worth visiting. It's also very close, only 45 minute drive from Provo.

http://cid-a187cbd0d0b9b1fa.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public/Indian%20Ridge

This lot is under contract at $7000. If the sale fails, then we would have an opportunity to buy it if we liked it. It is steep, but a very beautiful lot.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=11390264

This lot is more expensive, he's asking ($29,900), but he's already done most of the prep work. The septic is in, the power and water are at the house, the plans are approved and the building permit it secured. And, he seems somewhat flexible on price. This would really jump start the project to have all that work already done.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=9517286

Call me if you want to come along.

Brandon

Let's Vote

***UPDATE***

Let's hold off doing this until we have some more info. I'm not sure this is the best way to choose officers, anyway.

I move that we vote for a Treasurer. I'd like to get this taken care of so we can know where we stand on finances. If a great deal on a lot comes up, we may need to move quickly, so we need to know where we stand.

According to Steph's excellent suggestion, the Treasurer's duties will include:

Keeping track of all contributions to the project, whether money, labor, or materials.

Periodic reporting and review of contributions

Keeping track of the budget, expenses, etc

Basically all the money stuff.

So, I've created a voting booth to the right. Please put a tally mark (X) next to the person you think would do the best job. The person with the most X's will be the Treasurer, if they accept the post. If you don't want to be the Treasurer, just put NA next to your name so we know not to vote for you.

Any questions?

Let's vote!

Brandon

Salvage opportunity

Here are some pictures of a house/cabin in Herriman that is going to be torn down. If we could get permission, we could salvage enough lumber to build a good sized cabin. It would take a ton of labor, but it may be worth looking into.

These are the sort of opportunities that will make this cabin feasible. We would have a hard time paying for lumber like this otherwise.

What do you think? Is it worth the effort to salvage?

Large vs. Small Cabin

I was talking to Brandon about building a larger cabin. I don't want to speak for him, but he was mentioning the point that it would take MUCH longer (and much more $$) to build a much larger cabin. We rarely have ALL the family together, so it wouldn't be an issue most of the time. Plus, we can always add on more rooms as needed. But getting the main structure finished first is ideal so we can start using it, then add more on over time.

However, if we did have everyone together he was mentioning how we could all fit in a smaller one:

17 Adults
__ Grandchildren (?)

Large room downstairs where all adults would sleep:

• 2 or 3 large sofas with comfortable foldout beds (6 people)
• 2 or 3 Murphy beds that fold out from the wall (6 people)
• throw a couple of cots or comfy cushions on the floor (5 people)

Not super private, but we could hang curtains around each bed for more privacy.

Large room upstairs for Grandchildren:

• 4 bunkbeds with trundlebeds (12 kids)
• 2 or 3 Murphy beds (9 kids)

Does that sound doable? Comfortable? Acceptable? 

Rammed Earth Basics

I know you're all just dying to know what the heck rammed earth is and what it will look like. I'll try to do it justice with a brief explanation and then some pictures and links for you to check out.

Rammed earth has been around for thousands of years. As a matter of fact, more people are living in earthen structures right now than any other type (I read that somewhere). The point being, if built correctly, they can last literally for hundreds if not thousands of years.

The process is simple in nature, but to form strong walls a good deal of experimentation is required. To build a strong earth wall, you need correct proportions of sand, clay, rock, and a binder which in our case would be portland cement. You mix those up with a small amount of water to activate the cement, and then you pour this dirt mixture into wooden forms, the same as for concrete. You then take a heavy tamper and pound the dirt down until it is sufficiently compacted. Remove the forms and you're done. The wall needs some time to cure, but it is already very strong.

Rammed earth walls need to be very thick. Probably 18 to 24 inches in our case. They are fireproof, soundproof, and have many thermal advantages. And they look amazing. The main costs for rammed earth are the wood for the forms, the cement, and any dirt or sand that needs to be brought in. The rest is just a ton of labor.

One drawback of rammed earth is that is have a very low R-value, meaning it does not insulate well. In our case, we would build insulated walls, with 4" of insulation inside the walls.

Anyway, maybe too much info. Here are the pictures and links:










http://www.rammedearth.info/index.htm#Home

http://www.sirewall.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rammed_earth

http://www.diyrammedearth.com/

Order of Events

Suggestion for order of events:

1. Come to a general consensus on the type, size, layout, cost, location,

2. Vote for officers. I think the president is a good idea, but I also think we need a Vice-President, Treasurer and Historian.

• I suggest that the treasurer track everyone's hours and financial contribution and the cost of building materials and where the money goes and all that stuff. They run the cabin budget. (I personally think that everyone should have an 'ownership' of the cabin according to how much they have contributed--a certain amount of time could equal a certain amount of money. We could figure out a point system or whatever. That way if we do rent it out, the money could be divided that way.) Or, we could be much more relaxed about it all and say whoever, whenever and the proceeds, if any, go to the cabin maintenance.
• And I just think a historian would be fun to track all of this, keep up the blog, make sure some pictures are taken of the process and maybe even some videos just to remember it all.

3. Everyone submit a contribution estimate so we can get a rough timeline.

4. Buy the lot

5. Survey the lot and come up with a detailed plan of everything in step 1.

6. Get to work!

Does anyone have any feedback on this order? Should we add more things to the list?

I like the pictures Brandon posted. I think we should do something bigger, though. We may easily have 15 people staying there at a time... but I'd like to see some layout suggestions once we decide on the style and we can go from there.

Size and Style

As far as the size and style, here are my thoughts:

I think the size should be modest - somewhere between 800 and 1400 square feet. That may seem too small, but remember that a cabin is a different atmosphere than a home. Fewer bedrooms are required, and large gathering places are preferred.

I tend to like a more modern look to a cabin, but that's just me. However, as far as materials go, the traditional log cabin style is actually more expensive than something more contemporary. Logs cost a lot of money, unless we can salvage them.

As far as rammed earth goes, it is strictly for the walls. the roof would be built the same as with regular walls. So, we can choose whatever cabin plan we like, and then convert it to rammed earth. So, we don't need to limit ourselves that way.

Here are a few cabins that I like:

This one has a very nice feature, which is a garage built into the structure. That creates some disadvantages as well, but it's a nice design. Very simple shape, which is critical. Click the link to see more pictures.

http://www.balanceassociates.com/projects/wintergreenext.html

This is my favorite one so far. The layout is ultra simple. Basically a box with a standard roof which makes it easy to build. Click for more pictures.

http://www.balanceassociates.com/projects/mazamaext.html

This ones not really practical, but I just love the design. A very cool cabin.

http://www.olsonkundigarchitects.com/Projects/101/Chicken-Point-Cabin