I have been nominated treasurer of the Allred Cabin Fever project. So I will be contacting each family member with some questions about finances, etc. When answering these questions please know that your answers will not be shared w/anyone else. Once everyone has answered I will give a grand total, so you will know your portion and a total. The purpose of this survey is to determine the actual financial feasibility of doing this and starting somewhat quickly so we can start enjoying our new family cabin. Realistically, we will probably need to find a building lot that offers some sort of seller financing, so we will have a down payment and a monthly payment as well as building costs. Before we start, however, there will also need to be some rules guidelines discussed and agreed upon by the entire group. Above all else, I think we can all agree we don't want this to bring up ANY ill feelings between anybody. Some of the things in mind that I am talking about are equity splits in the event the property is sold, scheduling of the cabin, value of labor/skills/etc as a contribution instead of money. Please assume that these questions will be answered and resolved to everyone's agreement. Please also assume that we will actually get this done and you will have use of a cabin. I know I was originally thinking, sweet a family cabin, this will be fun even though it will never go anywhere. But once I started thinking that it might actually go somewhere I was taking it a bit more serious and thinking that I would definitely be willing to contribute to make this happen. Also, if you don't feel you can contribute anything at this time, it doesn't mean you are not allowed at the cabin. This is a family use cabin. It will mean if any proceeds or equity or rental income is had, that you won't get a portion of that. You may also be able to contribute later, or contribute items. Here is a list of questions: Please discuss these w/your spouse and be ready to answer them in the next couple of days.
1. How much, if anything, can you contribute up front as a lump sum? Min & Max. Think of this as, well we could easily do $X, possibly $XX. We don't want anyone to feel stretched by this by any means. But the more we can get committed the more likely that this will actually take place.
2. How much, if anything, can you contribute on a consistent monthly basis? Min & Max again
3. How many hours can you commit to actual physical labor per month, as a family? This is for actual building, site prep, etc.
4. What equipment might you have access to for free/reduced rate that could possibly be used in construction?
Friday, July 30, 2010
Thursday, July 29, 2010
Temporary office/cabin
So here is an example of a temporary office that might work great for building cabin HQ. This is a current auction that ends on Saturday. The current price is $100. And later you can convert it to storage or something.
Wednesday, July 28, 2010
Cheap 'cabin' structure
So these come up for auction every now & then:
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,ut/auction/view?auc=463563
This one is currently at $1. they typically end up around 20-200 depending on how nice they are inside or how hard they are to move. This would get us a complete structure for VERY cheap. The cons, ugly, not efficient for weather, possibly no bathrooms inside, not a 'cabin'. the pros, CHEAP, CHEAP, WE HAVE A BUILDING. This would get a building in place where we can then enjoy for a while while we build a real cabin. Brandon did mention if this is temporary, then just get some free camper trailers that people are giving away all the time; they have bathrooms and are easily moved. True, but we can all fit in here. Maybe the campers aren't a bad idea. Maybe we could get some old crappy cars & cement blocks and put them all in the front yard. just kidding, tangent. Just a thought here though that would make a real structure actually possible THIS YEAR. if we had a lot
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,ut/auction/view?auc=463563
This one is currently at $1. they typically end up around 20-200 depending on how nice they are inside or how hard they are to move. This would get us a complete structure for VERY cheap. The cons, ugly, not efficient for weather, possibly no bathrooms inside, not a 'cabin'. the pros, CHEAP, CHEAP, WE HAVE A BUILDING. This would get a building in place where we can then enjoy for a while while we build a real cabin. Brandon did mention if this is temporary, then just get some free camper trailers that people are giving away all the time; they have bathrooms and are easily moved. True, but we can all fit in here. Maybe the campers aren't a bad idea. Maybe we could get some old crappy cars & cement blocks and put them all in the front yard. just kidding, tangent. Just a thought here though that would make a real structure actually possible THIS YEAR. if we had a lot
Saturday, July 24, 2010
Report on lot visits
The realtor showing us the properties showed us several lots that were interesting to us. Here they are:
This first lot is just over 1 acre, is steep, but has a good flat spot for building. One bonus is that it faces South and west, perfect for being able to harness the suns energy for heating. One downside is that most of the trees on this lot are smaller. There's not the 'secluded in the pines' feel, but it's still very pretty. One advantage to this is you have much better views because you can see over the trees.
The seller is asking $23,900, but there's really no work done to the lot yet.
Driveway into the lot
Smaller trees...
but beautiful views South and West.
Nice view.
This next lot is actually very pretty, but it has a couple of problems. It has a great flat spot for building, but it's quite a ways up into the lot, so building the driveway to get there would be quite the chore. However, the cabin would be nestled in a gorgeous group of pines. Very pretty.
It is also facing South in a thick forest. There would be virtually no solar gain in the winter.
He's asking $19,900, with no work done.
Right beyond me where that tree is tipping over is the flat spot for building
But this is the view down to the road...a very long driveway.
Very pretty forest.
This last lot is also facing South, so it has the same solar problems as the others. However, it has a couple of large advantages. The owner is desperate to sell, and he has already done a good deal of work to the property. He's installed the septic, he's got water and power to the house, he's already put in the driveway and leveled the building lot. And he's already got approved permits for the cabin. A very pretty lot.
So, there's a summary of the trip. It takes about 1 hour 15 minutes from our front door to this location, so it's kinda far. But the drive would be worth it. It's a beautiful canyon.
Brandon
Wednesday, July 21, 2010
Visiting lots
I'm driving down south to visit a couple of possible lots either tonight, or tomorrow night.
If you're interested in coming along, let me know and we'll go together. Here are the lots I'll be visiting:
If you're interested in coming along, let me know and we'll go together. Here are the lots I'll be visiting:
This lot is selling for $3200 for 1 acre, but he seems willing to go down a bit. It would take a little money to get the power and water to the lot, but not as much as in some areas. The landscape is not terribly exciting, at least from the pictures: mostly scrub oak. But because it's so cheap, it's worth visiting. It's also very close, only 45 minute drive from Provo.
This lot is under contract at $7000. If the sale fails, then we would have an opportunity to buy it if we liked it. It is steep, but a very beautiful lot.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=11390264
This lot is more expensive, he's asking ($29,900), but he's already done most of the prep work. The septic is in, the power and water are at the house, the plans are approved and the building permit it secured. And, he seems somewhat flexible on price. This would really jump start the project to have all that work already done.
Monday, July 19, 2010
Let's Vote
***UPDATE***
Let's hold off doing this until we have some more info. I'm not sure this is the best way to choose officers, anyway.
I move that we vote for a Treasurer. I'd like to get this taken care of so we can know where we stand on finances. If a great deal on a lot comes up, we may need to move quickly, so we need to know where we stand.
According to Steph's excellent suggestion, the Treasurer's duties will include:
Keeping track of all contributions to the project, whether money, labor, or materials.
Periodic reporting and review of contributions
Keeping track of the budget, expenses, etc
Basically all the money stuff.
So, I've created a voting booth to the right. Please put a tally mark (X) next to the person you think would do the best job. The person with the most X's will be the Treasurer, if they accept the post. If you don't want to be the Treasurer, just put NA next to your name so we know not to vote for you.
Any questions?
Let's vote!
Brandon
According to Steph's excellent suggestion, the Treasurer's duties will include:
Keeping track of all contributions to the project, whether money, labor, or materials.
Periodic reporting and review of contributions
Keeping track of the budget, expenses, etc
Basically all the money stuff.
So, I've created a voting booth to the right. Please put a tally mark (X) next to the person you think would do the best job. The person with the most X's will be the Treasurer, if they accept the post. If you don't want to be the Treasurer, just put NA next to your name so we know not to vote for you.
Any questions?
Let's vote!
Brandon
Sunday, July 18, 2010
Salvage opportunity
Here are some pictures of a house/cabin in Herriman that is going to be torn down. If we could get permission, we could salvage enough lumber to build a good sized cabin. It would take a ton of labor, but it may be worth looking into.
These are the sort of opportunities that will make this cabin feasible. We would have a hard time paying for lumber like this otherwise.
What do you think? Is it worth the effort to salvage?
These are the sort of opportunities that will make this cabin feasible. We would have a hard time paying for lumber like this otherwise.
What do you think? Is it worth the effort to salvage?
Large vs. Small Cabin
I was talking to Brandon about building a larger cabin. I don't want to speak for him, but he was mentioning the point that it would take MUCH longer (and much more $$) to build a much larger cabin. We rarely have ALL the family together, so it wouldn't be an issue most of the time. Plus, we can always add on more rooms as needed. But getting the main structure finished first is ideal so we can start using it, then add more on over time.
However, if we did have everyone together he was mentioning how we could all fit in a smaller one:
17 Adults
__ Grandchildren (?)
Large room downstairs where all adults would sleep:
Large room upstairs for Grandchildren:
However, if we did have everyone together he was mentioning how we could all fit in a smaller one:
17 Adults
__ Grandchildren (?)
Large room downstairs where all adults would sleep:
- 2 or 3 large sofas with comfortable foldout beds (6 people)
- 2 or 3 Murphy beds that fold out from the wall (6 people)
- throw a couple of cots or comfy cushions on the floor (5 people)
Large room upstairs for Grandchildren:
- 4 bunkbeds with trundlebeds (12 kids)
- 2 or 3 Murphy beds (9 kids)
Friday, July 16, 2010
Rammed Earth Basics
I know you're all just dying to know what the heck rammed earth is and what it will look like. I'll try to do it justice with a brief explanation and then some pictures and links for you to check out.
Rammed earth has been around for thousands of years. As a matter of fact, more people are living in earthen structures right now than any other type (I read that somewhere). The point being, if built correctly, they can last literally for hundreds if not thousands of years.
The process is simple in nature, but to form strong walls a good deal of experimentation is required. To build a strong earth wall, you need correct proportions of sand, clay, rock, and a binder which in our case would be portland cement. You mix those up with a small amount of water to activate the cement, and then you pour this dirt mixture into wooden forms, the same as for concrete. You then take a heavy tamper and pound the dirt down until it is sufficiently compacted. Remove the forms and you're done. The wall needs some time to cure, but it is already very strong.
Rammed earth walls need to be very thick. Probably 18 to 24 inches in our case. They are fireproof, soundproof, and have many thermal advantages. And they look amazing. The main costs for rammed earth are the wood for the forms, the cement, and any dirt or sand that needs to be brought in. The rest is just a ton of labor.
One drawback of rammed earth is that is have a very low R-value, meaning it does not insulate well. In our case, we would build insulated walls, with 4" of insulation inside the walls.
Anyway, maybe too much info. Here are the pictures and links:
http://www.rammedearth.info/index.htm#Home
Rammed earth has been around for thousands of years. As a matter of fact, more people are living in earthen structures right now than any other type (I read that somewhere). The point being, if built correctly, they can last literally for hundreds if not thousands of years.
The process is simple in nature, but to form strong walls a good deal of experimentation is required. To build a strong earth wall, you need correct proportions of sand, clay, rock, and a binder which in our case would be portland cement. You mix those up with a small amount of water to activate the cement, and then you pour this dirt mixture into wooden forms, the same as for concrete. You then take a heavy tamper and pound the dirt down until it is sufficiently compacted. Remove the forms and you're done. The wall needs some time to cure, but it is already very strong.
Rammed earth walls need to be very thick. Probably 18 to 24 inches in our case. They are fireproof, soundproof, and have many thermal advantages. And they look amazing. The main costs for rammed earth are the wood for the forms, the cement, and any dirt or sand that needs to be brought in. The rest is just a ton of labor.
One drawback of rammed earth is that is have a very low R-value, meaning it does not insulate well. In our case, we would build insulated walls, with 4" of insulation inside the walls.
Anyway, maybe too much info. Here are the pictures and links:
http://www.rammedearth.info/index.htm#Home
Order of Events
Suggestion for order of events:
1. Come to a general consensus on the type, size, layout, cost, location,
2. Vote for officers. I think the president is a good idea, but I also think we need a Vice-President, Treasurer and Historian.
- I suggest that the treasurer track everyone's hours and financial contribution and the cost of building materials and where the money goes and all that stuff. They run the cabin budget. (I personally think that everyone should have an 'ownership' of the cabin according to how much they have contributed--a certain amount of time could equal a certain amount of money. We could figure out a point system or whatever. That way if we do rent it out, the money could be divided that way.) Or, we could be much more relaxed about it all and say whoever, whenever and the proceeds, if any, go to the cabin maintenance.
- And I just think a historian would be fun to track all of this, keep up the blog, make sure some pictures are taken of the process and maybe even some videos just to remember it all.
3. Everyone submit a contribution estimate so we can get a rough timeline.
4. Buy the lot
5. Survey the lot and come up with a detailed plan of everything in step 1.
6. Get to work!
Does anyone have any feedback on this order? Should we add more things to the list?
I like the pictures Brandon posted. I think we should do something bigger, though. We may easily have 15 people staying there at a time... but I'd like to see some layout suggestions once we decide on the style and we can go from there.
Size and Style
As far as the size and style, here are my thoughts:
I think the size should be modest - somewhere between 800 and 1400 square feet. That may seem too small, but remember that a cabin is a different atmosphere than a home. Fewer bedrooms are required, and large gathering places are preferred.
I tend to like a more modern look to a cabin, but that's just me. However, as far as materials go, the traditional log cabin style is actually more expensive than something more contemporary. Logs cost a lot of money, unless we can salvage them.
As far as rammed earth goes, it is strictly for the walls. the roof would be built the same as with regular walls. So, we can choose whatever cabin plan we like, and then convert it to rammed earth. So, we don't need to limit ourselves that way.
Here are a few cabins that I like:
This one has a very nice feature, which is a garage built into the structure. That creates some disadvantages as well, but it's a nice design. Very simple shape, which is critical. Click the link to see more pictures.
This is my favorite one so far. The layout is ultra simple. Basically a box with a standard roof which makes it easy to build. Click for more pictures.
This ones not really practical, but I just love the design. A very cool cabin.
Thursday, July 15, 2010
Define "Cabin"
When you say, "cabin" do you mean a 2-room lodging to hunker-down for the night? Or a palatial spread with all the comforts of home? (bonus points if you can name the subtle movie reference)
I love the idea of rammed earth, by the way. There is a mansion-sized house in Napa Valley that is made of rammed earth that looks amazing.
Here are some photos of rammed earth "cabins". Let us know what you have in mind...
I love the idea of rammed earth, by the way. There is a mansion-sized house in Napa Valley that is made of rammed earth that looks amazing.
Here are some photos of rammed earth "cabins". Let us know what you have in mind...
OK, here we go!
So, I thought I'd answer some of the questions asked in the comments below.
As far as time frame, that depends upon how much free time and money everyone has;)
But, I anticipate a long term project, possibly broken up into phases. Best guess right now is at least 2 years, maybe as long as 5 years. Naturally, I'd like to go as quickly as possible. But cost will determine our speed. And I'm OK with that.
Speaking of cost, with what I'm seeing out there, I anticipate spending anywhere from $9000 up to $15,000 on the lot. I think the cabin itself can be built for around $20,000, depending on how much material we can salvage. I'll be putting together some cost estimates pretty soon.
As far as buying some land with a cabin already on it, I think that would be great. However, for a cabin anywhere near as nice as that one we're planning on building, we would have to spend at least $50,000, bare minimum. To do that, we'd have to ask everyone to save money, which is in short supply for most. Then we'd have to wait until enough was saved, which would easily take 5+ years. I just don't see that happening. But, I like the idea and we should look for great deals that could make sense.
And, to be honest, I really want to build this darn thing!! Kristi nailed me! I've got an itch to build a rammed earth cabin! Guilty as charged. But seriously, the value to the kids and everyone involved would be tremendous if would could actually accomplish this.
And finally, I will shortly be posting links to lots that I've seen that may fit. Also, I have many many links to rammed earth sites that are very fun. I also have several cabins that I'd like you all to look at and see if they would work.
Finally, if you login you can create your own posts on this blog. Please do. I hope to see everyones ideas with links to pictures, videos, etc. If it seems cool, post it! That's part of the fun.
Thanks for the comments!
Brandon
As far as time frame, that depends upon how much free time and money everyone has;)
But, I anticipate a long term project, possibly broken up into phases. Best guess right now is at least 2 years, maybe as long as 5 years. Naturally, I'd like to go as quickly as possible. But cost will determine our speed. And I'm OK with that.
Speaking of cost, with what I'm seeing out there, I anticipate spending anywhere from $9000 up to $15,000 on the lot. I think the cabin itself can be built for around $20,000, depending on how much material we can salvage. I'll be putting together some cost estimates pretty soon.
As far as buying some land with a cabin already on it, I think that would be great. However, for a cabin anywhere near as nice as that one we're planning on building, we would have to spend at least $50,000, bare minimum. To do that, we'd have to ask everyone to save money, which is in short supply for most. Then we'd have to wait until enough was saved, which would easily take 5+ years. I just don't see that happening. But, I like the idea and we should look for great deals that could make sense.
And, to be honest, I really want to build this darn thing!! Kristi nailed me! I've got an itch to build a rammed earth cabin! Guilty as charged. But seriously, the value to the kids and everyone involved would be tremendous if would could actually accomplish this.
And finally, I will shortly be posting links to lots that I've seen that may fit. Also, I have many many links to rammed earth sites that are very fun. I also have several cabins that I'd like you all to look at and see if they would work.
Finally, if you login you can create your own posts on this blog. Please do. I hope to see everyones ideas with links to pictures, videos, etc. If it seems cool, post it! That's part of the fun.
Thanks for the comments!
Brandon
Wednesday, July 14, 2010
Cabin lots that have some potential
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=11390264
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=10905477
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=10676966
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=11395789
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=11561676
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=342&ad=11319126
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=10905477
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=10676966
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=11395789
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=527&ad=11561676
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&cat=342&ad=11319126
How one group got the money to build their cabin
This looks really interesting. They basically sold time at their cabin for contributions to the project. I wonder if that could help us?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/961034734/were-building-a-cabin?pos=59&ref=popular
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/961034734/were-building-a-cabin?pos=59&ref=popular
Cabin Exploratory Committee
I hereby nominate all of you to be on the Allred Family Cabin Exploratory Committee.
Your responsibilities will be to determine if you feel this is a feasible project. And if not, why not.
The project will include time and/or money from everyone involved. Some more, and some less, which is great. Everyone's situation and priorities are different. No pressure will be applied to anyone to contribute more than they feel comfortable with.
To summarize the project: Buy some land, build a cabin, enjoy. Let's break it down a little further, shall we?
Buying the land:
There are very cheap lots to be had out there ($5000 or less). But they are generally in the desert with little to no trees, shade, or recreational opportunities close by.
The most important attribute this land must have, in my view, is that it gets everyone excited. That's really the only way to generate enough energy to accomplish this task. That is most likely to occur when it is:
a. within a reasonable driving distance (1.5 hours or less)
b. wooded and beautiful
c. with utilities available
d. with fun stuff to do close by.
If you have other suggestions, please post them.
Building the cabin:
I feel we possess, or know enough people who possess, adequate knowledge to build a simple cabin. I have thought a great deal about this, and have some ideas how to do so cheaply. But more on that later. Requirements for the cabin include:
a. small enough to build ourselves, but large enough to house at least several families at once.
b. energy efficient. We don't want large residual utility expenses.
c. attractive and practical. ie. enough storage space, and comfortable
d. self-sufficient. The cabin will be empty most of the time. It needs to be able to maintain temperature on it own.
e. affordable. the design must be simple enough that we can build it with largely unskilled labor.
Please add more.
Finally, enjoying the cabin.
This may seem strange, but after talking with others who have embarked on large family projects like this, the prevailing advice is....don't embark on large family projects!! The reason being, hurt feelings and disputes over money, control, decision-making, etc. So, this could nip the whole thing in the bud if we don't figure out a way to do this fairly. Here are some requirements I've thought of:
a. one person/family must be in charge. There needs to be someone that has the authority to make the tough decisions. This should be voted on, but once done...is done.
b. Everyone must agree on how to split up ownership. Some may be able to contribute only money, other only labor and materials, and others some of both. How do we divvy up ownership? This must be clearly understood BEFORE any action is taken.
c. Is this an investment (meaning we rent it out on occasion), or a family only cabin. This will effect how we structure the legal aspects, and the sharing of time in the cabin.
d. Any money, time, or material contributed should be considered gone. Meaning you can't ask for it back. So, only contribute what you can live without. However, the group may at some point decide to sell the cabin, at which time we will fairly divvy up the proceeds, if any.
So, these are my preliminary thoughts. I'd love to hear yours. In looking at land, I've already found a couple of lots that seem to meet all the requirements above. One of them is as cheap as $9000. Very doable for a small group of people to purchase.
Now, it very well may be that this just won't work out. But please consider the value to our families that would be generated in both the building, and the enjoyment of a cabin! And it will very likely be a decent monetary investment. No guarantees, though.
Thanks, and please post any thoughts or ideas you may have.
Brandon
Your responsibilities will be to determine if you feel this is a feasible project. And if not, why not.
The project will include time and/or money from everyone involved. Some more, and some less, which is great. Everyone's situation and priorities are different. No pressure will be applied to anyone to contribute more than they feel comfortable with.
To summarize the project: Buy some land, build a cabin, enjoy. Let's break it down a little further, shall we?
Buying the land:
There are very cheap lots to be had out there ($5000 or less). But they are generally in the desert with little to no trees, shade, or recreational opportunities close by.
The most important attribute this land must have, in my view, is that it gets everyone excited. That's really the only way to generate enough energy to accomplish this task. That is most likely to occur when it is:
a. within a reasonable driving distance (1.5 hours or less)
b. wooded and beautiful
c. with utilities available
d. with fun stuff to do close by.
If you have other suggestions, please post them.
Building the cabin:
I feel we possess, or know enough people who possess, adequate knowledge to build a simple cabin. I have thought a great deal about this, and have some ideas how to do so cheaply. But more on that later. Requirements for the cabin include:
a. small enough to build ourselves, but large enough to house at least several families at once.
b. energy efficient. We don't want large residual utility expenses.
c. attractive and practical. ie. enough storage space, and comfortable
d. self-sufficient. The cabin will be empty most of the time. It needs to be able to maintain temperature on it own.
e. affordable. the design must be simple enough that we can build it with largely unskilled labor.
Please add more.
Finally, enjoying the cabin.
This may seem strange, but after talking with others who have embarked on large family projects like this, the prevailing advice is....don't embark on large family projects!! The reason being, hurt feelings and disputes over money, control, decision-making, etc. So, this could nip the whole thing in the bud if we don't figure out a way to do this fairly. Here are some requirements I've thought of:
a. one person/family must be in charge. There needs to be someone that has the authority to make the tough decisions. This should be voted on, but once done...is done.
b. Everyone must agree on how to split up ownership. Some may be able to contribute only money, other only labor and materials, and others some of both. How do we divvy up ownership? This must be clearly understood BEFORE any action is taken.
c. Is this an investment (meaning we rent it out on occasion), or a family only cabin. This will effect how we structure the legal aspects, and the sharing of time in the cabin.
d. Any money, time, or material contributed should be considered gone. Meaning you can't ask for it back. So, only contribute what you can live without. However, the group may at some point decide to sell the cabin, at which time we will fairly divvy up the proceeds, if any.
So, these are my preliminary thoughts. I'd love to hear yours. In looking at land, I've already found a couple of lots that seem to meet all the requirements above. One of them is as cheap as $9000. Very doable for a small group of people to purchase.
Now, it very well may be that this just won't work out. But please consider the value to our families that would be generated in both the building, and the enjoyment of a cabin! And it will very likely be a decent monetary investment. No guarantees, though.
Thanks, and please post any thoughts or ideas you may have.
Brandon
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)